Dear Forrest,

during your excavations at San Lazaro, did you ever discover any discernable pictographic panels or individual markings? If so, are you willing to share?

~ Thanks, JJDiggins.

 

Thanks for the question JJ.  In my book The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo, I show pictures of a kiva mural I excavated. It has Anasazi painted figures that have to mean something. In my opinion that makes them words.

Professional archaeologists will most certainly disagree with my findings, so I will show you markings on a prehistoric antler tine that were made with a stone tool. It was also found in my excavations.

You decide if it is a written language. If you think it not, then please tell me what the lines mean. f

 

(Permission MUST be granted to copy image: It is copyrighted)

 

 

Best of Luck with all that you seek!  Treasure the Adventure!

260 Comments

  1. I’m going to say: L= a herd of creatures; M= a hunter with spear: and R= a location. So it’s a hunt. We have a site like this at Munsungan Lake where the caribou migration was forced to swim through a constriction. There’s a Paleo-Indian camp nearby and the Munsungan chert quarries are not far away. The constriction is the kill zone. Indians with spears would wait for the animals to pass through and pick them off like salmon.

    Madesquare

  4. JDiggins – you have got to be one of the sweetest souls on the forums. Runes are incredibly simple yet incredibly complex. Maybe this will help.

    http://runesecrets.com/rune-meanings/sowilo

    The last character can also mean ‘plenty or bountiful’

    This song always brings tears to my eyes. To think of what’s been Given to the world.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeDylD8dV7U

    You’re right, the question may be why it was found where it was.

    lifesablaze

    1. I would have read it going the other direction – from the end of the item and then upward. That gave the x mark and then the two marks and then the three marks. But the marks have marks and it seems that the three mark is yet to receive the extra top more horizontal piece. So what does it mean? No idea other than whoever it is did not make it long enough to get the last horizontal piece or a four mark. Interestings.

      Pen Ghost

  8. RE: ff’s comment about SL kiva mural images suggesting words — when one looks at stained glass images in chapels, do you think they represent ‘words’? Prehistoric cave drawings and petroglyphs present images. Stories and ideas predated language (‘words’) in many cultures over many (or is it several?) years.

    Also — ff’s comment: ‘then tell me what the lines mean’. Possibly nothing. Nothing at all, ff. I doodle profusely. During meetings. During conference calls. During flights when I’ve run out of reading material. All just a bunch of random lines with no meaning whatsoever. When I went on Boy Scout campouts decades ago, I loved to carve random geometric patterns in sticks with my razor sharp Buck knife. It was fun and it helped pass the time. No words, no stories. Nothing to be deciphered by future generations or advanced cultures from distant galaxies.

    Not everything in which members of our species engage has meaning nor deserves interpretation.

    aardvarkbark

  9. Speaking of images and meanings — at Philmont, the wonderful land owned by the Boy Scouts in NE NM, there is a camp called Indian Writings which was one of my favorites to visit as a youth on a ten-day trek through the wilderness. One could participate in the excavation of a pit-house in the valley during the day, then take a guided tour of the petroglyphs in the valley wall above during the evening.

    One image was of a large circle. Inside was what would pass as the universal symbol for a woman, while outside was the image of a man (Each was made with two stacked triangles whose points met. For one image, the top inverted triangle had a broader base than the bottom one; for the other, the bottom triangle had the broader base. They both had lines representing arms and legs, plus circle representing heads. It was immediately clear which was male, which female; they could be used today to differentiate bathrooms at any international airport.)

    The guide would ask what the image depicted. I always thought that the circle was of the pit house and the man/woman images indicated the division of labor — woman inside doing cooking, caring for children; while man outside provides protection, planting corn/bean/squash crops, hunting, mowing the yard…..

    Turns out, archaeologists found the skeletal remains of a woman buried inside the pit house in the valley below and those of a male just outside, oriented just as depicted in the petroglyph.

    So, the image had meaning, even without words. But the meaning could possibly be subject to interpretation.

    aardvarkbark

    2. Aardvarkbark; I think that focusing on the “Kiva” and the images is as important as the “Markings” on the antlers. One blogger (I think it was jdiggins) posted that: It appears to me to be directions.
      A distance, a direction and a destination. I very much agree. The middle marking which jdiggens calls direction, could be an arrow pointing The little marking above and to the left of the left and center marking, and also found on the lower leg (/) of the “X” could mean “I” or “YOU??? – “I” (or “you”) went (or must go) in the direction of the “arrow” and found “Something” at the “X” – Just a thought – JDA

      JDA

  10. Thank you, JDiggins, Jenny, and Mr. Fenn for the “Featured Question”. From studies, antlers were used for knapping, tools, and communications. Could this particular tine been used for just one mentioned? I don’t know. The marks are interesting. For whatever reason, it’s from a time of what once was or continues to be.

    pdenver

  11. Question is a very interesting word as it relates to the chase. Quest I on. I’m on a quest. My quest. Your quest. Everybody gets a quest!

    Noodling.

    Does your quest and my quest lead to a place where all the lines cross like an asterisk or star?

    Fried noodles now!!

    Twingem

    1. Missed this comment until now. Fry away. My detour was a horror, a disappointment to me and anyone else I happed upon, it felt more like a visitors home in foreclosure with windows and doors barricaded and the swimming pool run over with so much moss it appeared to be green slime. What a depressing place. That is one financially deficient place I would not want to be. I hope the residents around get out soon. Depressing, Disappointing Detour. Sad, sad, sad, sad, sad at that point.

      Pen Ghost

      1. Oh, so sorry your detour wasn’t what you hoped. May today be filled with fun detours!

        I’m off in a bit to the blue skies over this beautiful state! Hoping we find a safe place to land.

        Cheers to Cinco de Mayo and heros that have graced our lives.

        Twingem

        1. Me too. I did not get pictures of anything other than snow and hail and then chilling rain.

          Glad the sky is blue and the flight is in a bit. A safe landing is in my prayers. Enjoy the trip and adventure. May it be uplifting and pleasant and full of exploration and wonder.

          Pen Ghost

            1. All had a blast, yes. Simply beautiful. Going over continental divide was pretty spectacular. Had nice lunch at our destination and had nice flight home. I’m hooked!

              You are always invited and welcome PG. All you have to do is call, and ill be there to pick you up.

              Twingem

              1. Can’t call without a # you know . . . hahaha I tried a # once or rather it was twice and I got an answering machine with a lot of heavy breathing – creepy and probably a wrong # indeed. Do you have another scheduled flight this spring?

                Pen Ghost

                1. Yep, going to yellowstone in 2 weeks. Never been. Should be fun.

                  Also, I hereby grant Jenny to give you my email address! Email me and we can chat.

                  Twingem

  12. I have been told before that my imagination is TOO GOOD and maybe need to simplify! However, I cannot resist! Knowing Mr. Fenn and his exactness and how he words things……. WHAT IF…….
    1. It is a prehistoric antler. – He probably had one.
    2. It has stone markings on it. – BUT he made them.
    3. It was found in his excavations. – Does not say WHICH excavations it was found in.(Not San Lazaro)
    NOW
    1 Turn the picture around and see the mountains, steepness, narrow passage and what we all agree on is the X – but where?
    This is what/how I read what Forest says – everytime! With looking up definitions as well!!!
    So……what does ring the bell loudly. and he who dies with over fifty dolars mean to you?
    IMHO
    Best Regards

    The Lone Aspen

  13. Interesting. Could the marks indicate reaching landmarks on a journey? Or could they indicate the start of seasons? Maybe they mark special days for the person like when their child first walked or talked. It’s fun to think of the possibilities. For me a special day was receiving my book the TTOTC. I ordered it during my family’s first spontaneous trip and it was waiting for us when we got home. Opening that book for the first time was a special experience and the start of a journey for me and my family. I now patiently wait for the snow to finally melt and the roads to open so I can journey back to the special place I have found to continue my search. When I get there it will mark another special day for me. I always feel refreshed and rejuvenated after visiting that special place. Thank you Forrest for creating such a masterpiece and getting us out into the wilderness and Jenny for this wonderful place to share. Blessings to all in the chase.

    Dampenedmyth

  15. Thanks for the question and the post! It’s fascinating to read everyone’s ideas – a fun use of imagination. 🙂

    On another note, I find this interesting: tine (dictionary.com) =

    Old English tind, a general Germanic word (cf. Old High German zint “sharp point, spike,” Old Norse tindr “tine, point, top, summit,” German Zinne “pinnacle”), of unknown origin.

    pinnacle =
    1.
    the highest point or level, esp of fame, success, etc
    2.
    a towering peak, as of a mountain

    Is there a chance someone is getting closer to the point? closer to that X? What is the meaning, after all, of the lines – of the poem?

    Just more imaginings and armchair wonderings…

    J

  25. Usually, i prefer to reserve my comments and/or thoughts for a day or two, but I was so excited I passed myself up!
    Today, I too dusted off THE SECRETS IS SAN LAZARO PUEBLO and began another look see…

    Jdiggins

  27. Are native americans typically right handed? (marking with dominant hand)

    The slashes seem to be cut outward AND made after the straight lines. (Fenn, are you that smart to know which way is up… impressed)

    3 kids, 2 wives, 1 horse?

    (small dark slashes) could be 2 seasons
    3 good hunts, next season 2 good hunts, 1 bad hunt?
    or substitute hunts with heavy snows or crops

    DeCall Thomas

  29. More thoughts..
    It’s portable and organic, therefore subject to decomposition. I don’t think it was intended to last forever? The marks seem to have different depths and/or age, so maybe not made at the same time?
    Also, is it read horizontally or vertically? I would guess left to right if horizontal and if vertical from bottom to top, simply due to the darkness and seeming age variation. I could be way off, but I’m just trying to think logically.
    Lastly, where EXACTLY was it found and were there any other items found in close proximity with the same markings? Was it carbon dated?
    It is interesting, and I’m curious of forrests thoughts on it.

    Jdiggins

    2. Like an Estes rocket fin placement guide, Fill slots with charcoal and roll arrow shaft over for marking two and three feather arrows. Maybe, but arrows shafts would have to be specific dimensions. Maybe the x controls that. I sill lean towards, Deer,3..Deer,2.. No deer. Like and old fisherman’s calendar. I kept one, accumulating Colorado fishing info for seven years. Now only if I could find that damn calendar. Its her somewhere. g

      ace 340

      1. Haha, that’s my song Willow, except the David Bowie one. I was fascinated with the Marijuana stores in Colorado…I don’t smoke that stuff, but walked in one to get some photos and the first jar on the shelf was full of buds covered in mold and labeled ‘Major Tom’; the attendant told me that was the strongest they had, lol.

        TomTom

          1. Nope – don’t know yet. Hopefully, it will not be tomorrow while I am traveling back home – long ride of about 8 hours – given a small detour and a camera that is begging to focus with a new close-up lens. I would not want to miss the ‘Big one’. but isn’t it always the big one that gets away. Should be an interesting article – after all, isn’t everything about Forrest interesting.

            Pen Ghost

              2. I will not be in CO but it does sound tempting – would love to see the flying. Goodness, have a safe flight and landing. Relax, I’m sure it won’t be as nerve-racking as the Big Island. Many tend to take a helicopter ride over the volcano while it is erupting – I have a picture someone took while doing such a flight. Safe travels – xxooxo

                Pen Ghost

      1. Those are some great ideas, Willowtree.

        The antler could also be the earliest known Deer John letter…to someone’s X.

        The middle glyph…that looks like an arrow pointing upward…could represent something like “where the sun don’t shine”.

        Just typing out loud. I mean…thinking out loud. 🙂

        JC1117

  33. I’ll try again. [Taking from 5th century runes.]

    sun ice ice sun ash (or lake) gift

    One guess at the translation: Fire melts ice. It also consumes into ash. It transforms and what is produced in the end is something totally different — a gift, a miracle.

    ~Y

    PhoenixForte

  36. I believe the markings are directions to follow a trail: go left for a distance x 3, turn left for 1 distance, turn right for 1 distance and you arrive at X

    *what do you think the markings mean Forrest?

    Rich

  38. Enjoying everyone’s imaginations to what the tine says. 🙂 Okay, I’ll post a silly one. The tine is a road/directional map reading from right to left as shown in the photo:

    Take “X”it (exit) 23 until you reach the tine (turn), and tine nigh. 🙂

    On a serious note, it would be interesting to know about the purpose of these marks.

    pdenver

    1. Maybe the marks mean that the tribe of two elders has just accepted new family members consisting of a tribe of one Elder and two children into their tribe. So the X tribe is now 5. That’s what I’d like to believe anyway.

      Twingem

      1. 2 + 3 = 5 ok I was thinking about just that today. You beat me to it in posting. Of course, today I realized I made an error of magnitude. It took getting out into the wilderness to re-walk, re-think, re-figure to realize I am incorrect in some logic – something as simple and 1+1 and 1+2. I now need to simplify my thoughts like simplifying everything else in life.

        Pen Ghost

                2. Exploring is great. Be sure to check everything on the way and these days the digital photos are the greatest. I hope you can take a picture while you are in CO flying. It would be interesting. I hope to snap a few of a new place to ‘explore’ on my detour home. Sometimes knowing where to explore new things is better than trying to figure out where something in particular is. Getting ready to take off in a few hours. 🙂

                  Pen Ghost

  44. It’s a countdown ending with a solution. Has someone solved each clue and the final place?? 🙂 Now it’s just a timing and circumstance thing. Best of luck to all in the search this year! Can’t wait to share my entire solve, even if, by some long shot, it is not correct. 🙂 All IMO.

    Jake

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