Dear Forrest,

during your excavations at San Lazaro, did you ever discover any discernable pictographic panels or individual markings? If so, are you willing to share?

~ Thanks, JJDiggins.

 

Thanks for the question JJ.  In my book The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo, I show pictures of a kiva mural I excavated. It has Anasazi painted figures that have to mean something. In my opinion that makes them words.

Professional archaeologists will most certainly disagree with my findings, so I will show you markings on a prehistoric antler tine that were made with a stone tool. It was also found in my excavations.

You decide if it is a written language. If you think it not, then please tell me what the lines mean. f

 

(Permission MUST be granted to copy image: It is copyrighted)

 

 

Best of Luck with all that you seek!  Treasure the Adventure!

260 Comments

  2. Wow! Thanks for answering, Forrest! And thanks jenny for sending it in and posting!
    Forrest, I have been doing a lot of reading and research on the subject. It is of great interest to me. What may appear to be simple scribbles, scratches, lines or doodles can turn out to be an entire “documentation” of an historical event.
    Let me stare at this, and study on it a bit, then I can answer without feeling it was a hasty understanding.
    Again, thanks!!!

    Jdiggins

  6. Very cool. Looks like writing to me. Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs were undecipherable until the Rosetta Stone was discovered. Looks like something “formal”, like maybe it was hung over the door of a healer or watchman. On another note, since it is written on a horn, it could mean “rumpus room”. Ha.

    Bailey

  7. I have one of these that I found several years ago ,I studied it for quite some time I am not sure about yours Mr. Fenn unless i looked at it for a while . The one that I found is a pictograph or map of a place out in the southwest .I will have to get some pics. for you and post them on Jenny’s board you might find it of interest.

    Wig Reeves

    1. That would be awesome Wig Reeves….. would love to see them myself… maybe I should create a board for ‘found treasures and ‘things’…. just for stuff like this…

      I think I will…. 🙂 Thanks for the idea!

      Jenny Kile

    1. Now that I’ve looked at it a bit, the middle image appears to possibly be a man wielding a club or weapon, and he looks as if he is poised to strike. Perhaps a warrior. And the three figures on the left might represent the lives that he may have taken in an important battle.

      I’ll keep thinking.

      SRW

      2. That’s a good thought. The two lines behind him could also be people that he is protecting. If the are people then the second set would look like two standing back to back. Perhaps the third, the line with a line through it, is a an attacker that they fought off and is now deceased. Interesting though that the person facing that one has no weapon. Maybe it is logged in the body of the deceased.

        Aaron

      1. JJdiggins, I forgot to thank you for such a great question… I am on the same thought process that it is directions but thinking it also could be a recollection of their travel, kills (softer put scores?) Did they not have copper or metal to mark the antlers? Only rocks? I still need to do some more research but have to find the time….

        Spallies

  12. Looks like a language to me, though not necessarily written words. May be a counting system (as others suggested) like the quipu, or “talking knots”. These systems show up cross-culturally. The vertical (or horizontal depending on your perspective) lines may be base units, and the other lines modifiers. That’d be my guess. Disclaimer: I have no idea what I’m talking about, but I’m sure going to look into it more. It’s a very cool find, and I’m sure I can say from all of us, thanks for sharing it. Have any more to share?

    Jeremy P.

  13. Hmmm… I think the lines might be some sort of directions on how to locate the animals again…. Like x marks the spot past the big tree growing in front of the flowing water where he (or she) hit the animal with his arrow… lol I have no idea I better go look some more- 🙂 Thanks Forrest and Jenny this is Fun!

    Spallies

  14. Question-kwestion- k west ion; k is west Eye on. Anyone else see the fake ape or is this monkey business and I shouldn’t grab all the bananas I can on the the one the one way trip? My blaze is orangish read, I will never forget it. Some say I wear a tin hat, butt, I sane. I once lost my ring in a pile of old garbage that included papers, shoestrings that had knotted up, drink straws, 5 small drink cups and a little over a year’s worth of sun tan lotion, I tan weakly. I did not want to go through all that nonsense so I just burned it all. There was the ring. On an old note, I guess I need to hitch up my big boy britches and quit thinking that I can solve this In Situ and being bothered by all the trolls that WE see. Hi

    Deeepthnkr

      1. Quest I on . . . ugh my quest was unreel. The lines meet somewhere but I was nowhere today. I met with a nice person from last year. We laughed a lot; of course, it was about all of my misadventures and tangled webs. But I experienced a ‘First’ today — I met a man and his teen son and he chatted about the ‘Fenn Treasure’. I hope he visits MW here. The day had a mind of its own and so I ended up visiting a hatchery – which was fun and feeding the fish reminded me of the monasteries in Asia. But their fish were bigger! Perhaps a quest tomorrow. How about you?

        Pen Ghost

    3. Another vaiation of my conjecture is that the initials on the antlers identify the members of the hunting party with varying responibilities that killed, skinned, carved and carried the animal. It’s theirs. It’s a claim check.

      Iceman

      1. I => hunter
        II => skinner, butcher
        III => transporter

        If you lived then, all your effort was focused on survival. No time for poetry and the fine arts. These guys are marking their next meal. By working as a team they were more effective hunters. But they wanted credit for their labor.

        Iceman

  16. Another interesting question and answer.

    It is always an enjoyable challenge to attempt to decrypt the past. I don’t know what those symbols mean…but I’m sure they convey a lot of information…like hieroglyphs as Bailey mentioned.

    They kind of look like a countdown to me. III…II…I… (3…2…1…) …as you move toward The Point.

    I wonder if maybe the antler was used in councils…in the kiva…as a talking stick…like some of the Plains Tribes. ?

    https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/history/events/talking-stick-and-feather-indigenous-tools-hold-sacred-power-of-free-speech/

    That’s an ancient and very wise tradition…to listen intently…with respect…before speaking. That is an Art that seems lost on a lot of people these days.

    Thank You, Jenny and Forrest…and JJDiggins.

    JC1117

      1. Very cool, WoodyBogg!

        Maybe the sticks found in the secret chamber of the south wall of the kiva at the San Lazaro Pueblo are Talking Sticks.

        One for each cycle (year)? There were 63 wooden wands discovered which could represent 63 years.

        The Sticks were obviously cached because they were considered Sacred.

        I don’t know. Just a thought.

        JC1117

  17. There are markings in Crack Cave that archaeologists say can’t be Thorish writings butt sum do. The blaze shines INTO the cave only twice year, Fall&Spring equinoxes. But there guided tours and we no how he fills about that. Besides who would step foot on a crack and so on and so fourth.

    Deeepthnkr

  22. Looks like a seven eleven or 7 11 to me on the left with the picture of a convenience store on the right. This may be the earliest example of a convenience store. The Anastazi may have been the earliest civilization to conceptualize the idea of a 24 hour convenience store. The Anastazi were a very prescient civilization.

    john

    1. The Pueblo Descendants of the Pueblo People that lived at San Lazaro Pueblo now living in and around Santa Fe and the Four Corners Area of New Mexico and Arizona find the word “Anasazi” extremely offensive .. It is a Navajo word no Pueblo Culture ever used to refer to their Ancestors, nor do they use now .. It is a word that demeans theirs Ancestors. Most of them would prefer you call their Ancestors “Ancestral Puebloans” or “Pueblo Ancestors” and NOT “Anasazi” .. The Hopi call their Ancestors Hisatsinom .. the Zuni, Tewa, Acoma, Taos, Cochiti, Zia, Tesuque, Ohkay Owingeh, Jemez, Isleta, Laguna, Nambe, Picuris, Pojoaque, Ildefonso, Sandia, Santa Ana, Santa Clara, Santo Domingo, and Ysleta Del Sur all have Tribally important names for the Ancestors that built the cultures of Chaco Canyon and Mesa Verde — and none of them ever used the word “Anasazi” .. https://www.hcn.org/issues/307/15815

      Brad Hartliep

      1. This seems to be directed at me since you replied just below my comment a day after I posted my comment. Whats your point Brad. I am fully aware of the fact that it is considered a derogatory term. From wikipedia “The name “Anasazi” has come to mean “ancient people,” although the word itself is Navajo, meaning “enemy ancestors.” I didnt use the word, Fenn did. Maybe you should ask the question, why did Fenn use the term Anasazi?

        john

  24. Most likely a short count of days and some note of game they encountered. Food and shelter occupied their thoughts constantly unlike modern man. Each day was a challenge to eke out an existence. So imagine sitting under a rock ledge with the few members of your tiny clan as you eat what’s left of the pig killed days before. It’s windy and storming mere feet away and all your thoughts dwell on that herd of Reindeer you saw upland. So you mark how many days travel it was since you saw them and how many days travel it was from the big river where the sun comes up over it. X could be the intersection of these place. Time distance food shelter. A map

    Deeepthnkr

  25. Sorry to get off topic but “Me in the middle” = idmedl = id metal and that metal is tin(Sn). Might want to check neon(ne)#10 also, means new. Nee is maiden name and I thought it referred to Willard F. Libby’s wifes maiden name, Woods. Hes from Grand Valley Colorado. Invented Carbon 14 dating which I believe is important to what we are discussing here…

    Deeepthnkr

  26. Enjoying all the comments here, and the Talking Stick article. So interesting.
    Personally have No clue what the markings mean. However, I pulled Secrets from San Lazaro Pueblo, dusted it off, and am enjoying the book.

    Stade

  30. Well, I figured it out…Leave it to the women to make sure cutlery matches pottery. The antler markings match table settings found on San Lazaro Pueblo “Bowls A-2 and 31”. Sisters must have borrowed serving bowls which were left in both kitchens. The antler proves who owns the full set. Ha! Just having fun.

    Stade

  33. You have a foot long sub, I have a foot long sub, we’ll meet up at the x and eat ‘em. Haha, that’s what I see. But it’s probably a counting thing. It’s very nice no matter what it says!

    Jeannie

  38. I enjoy the thoughts here. The markings do look like runes, and IF so, I would venture to say Viking. But then, why and how at San Pass to. Thus I am inclined to lean more toward the thinking of pre history. We haven’t written the book yet, but they did. As deeepthinker noted, much of their time was spent in survival mode. Food, shelter, defense. I t appears care was taken to add the additional “hooks” at the top of symbols one and two, which means something in addition to the “slashes”, imo. I do think it is a personal record, and lean toward my initial thought that it is directions.

    Jdiggins

    1. Funny but what’s the Point. Of course it is a real language but without a competent Rosetta Stone one is left with crumbs and guesses. Accuracy be darn.

      Without accuracy we end up with more guesses than Carter has pills.

      TTR

  44. Okay Forrest, I’m going to think on this. Prolly won’t sleep, but I never sleep anyway. I have thoughts on it, in particular your recent reference to changing the history books. The poem plays through my mind continuously, but I’m letting this move in my head for tonight.
    You truly make learning fun!!!

    Jdiggins

    1. I agree, JDiggins.

      Forrest does make learning fun. And thanks again for asking the question…btw.

      Your comment…”You…make learning fun” made me think of that Feetwood Mac song…

      “I never did believe in miracles,
      But I’ve a feeling it’s time to try.
      I never did believe in the ways of magic,
      But I’m beginning to wonder why.” – Fleetwood Mac

      JC1117

        2. How “The Secrets of San Lazaro Pueblo” begins…

          THE MAGIC

          “The Spirits are all around us.” That’s what the Tewa elder murmured as we wandered through the stone and adobe ruins of San Lazaro Pueblo…

          …The elder, who was pleased that we were working on this book, said, “Be sure and tell them the spirits are happy with you.”

          JC1117

      2. That is a great song, jc.
        I saw a show years back where Scott Wolter found a rhinestone and he thought it said jc1117. Relating to Jesus Christ.
        The more I read, the more I think they are runes. Simple enough to say it looks like nii nl t. But what does that mean? I dunno. I think they are words. One may be ice. Maybe not. But still begs the question, how and why did it end up in the American Southwest? Maybe that’s what it says. Maybe it’s not a map, but a record.

        Jdiggins

  48. A note on a doorway or a canyon wall would be one thing. A note on a small item that one carries is another thing. My guess is it’s either a death count, a siege/day count or an instructional item about the “worlds.” Numbers though. It seems like Japanese numbers.

    Five-leaf blaze

      1. Perhaps you get as much ah hem as little sleep as I get. Given the postings and times. It feels like I mark time by the hour – OMG! it’s one hour awake still, two hours awake now, three hours – yikes.

        Pen Ghost

        1. You know what is strange. I wake up a the same times each night. The time changes from nite to nite. For example, many nights I wake up at 1:24 am. Many nights I wake up at 3:26 am. Etc. There are about 10 times that I regularly wake up at on various night. I so see what it means.

          Twingem

          1. I’m so glad you see – I don’t see yet. I think though that there is something about the same times becoming ‘regulars’. I notice when I wake up it is one of my ‘regular’ times. I’m in NM maybe it is aliens visiting and they know how to read a clock and are consistent.

            Pen Ghost

              1. I find your advice is much better than the Gibbon’s! I so love the night air coming over me – my RV had the bedroom window at the head of the bed. I miss it so very much. camping is going to have to be tent – do I dare after my last tent experience 🙂 It’s snowing in the Rockies – I’ll have to slumber back home since I’m not an Eagle scout trained for winter survival — hmm.

                Pen Ghost

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