Although not the first line of Forrest Fenn’s treasure hunt poem, ‘Begin it where warm waters halt’ seems to be the place most people are starting.  And for good reason.  In the Feb. 27th, 2013, Today Show interview, it is where Mr. Fenn himself began to read, and where puzzlers have stated he has said to start.

This is not to say the previous 4 lines don’t hold value towards the finding of the treasure, but, the actual outdoor search seems to begin with understanding exactly  ‘where’ warm waters halt.

Where can ‘warm waters halt,’ though?’  The poem is like a riddle and so thinking about the different meanings of the phrase, and how it provides direction, is important.  There are actually many interpretations, and therefore possibilities.  Until a person finds Forrest Fenn’s hidden bronze treasure chest, all thoughts have at least some validity.

 

The following are possible interpretations/thoughts for WWWH:

  • Warm, referring to temperatures of the waters.  Some feel this suggests beginning where there is a ‘hot spring’ or where the water is considered warmer than normal, and ‘halts’.  For example, it could even imply where the ‘warmer waters’ of mountain springs halt, and enter rivers.
  • Warm, referring to color.  Since Forrest is an art dealer, it is not a stretch at all to think ‘warm’ suggests a ‘warm color’.  For example, red is a warm color, so ‘Red’ river … could be ‘warm’ waters.  Where it stops, churn backwards, or rests, could be where a searcher begins.   Any other ‘river, lake, stream’ with a ‘warm’ color in its name would fit, as well.
  • Warm Waters, referring to a specific ‘warm waters’ name of a place, like Firehole.  Taken further, any name of anything, which could be considered ‘warm waters’, like a road named ‘Red Creek (red creek road) or a town’s name which is interpreted to imply ‘warm waters’, like ‘Warm River’.  Wherever these places ‘halt’ then, like the town’s borders, or end of the road, could be where a person begins.
  • Warm Waters, referring to ‘unfrozen’ or ‘melting’.  In the spring/summer, many mountainsides begin to shed their white.  Lakes form at the bottom from the snowmelt; from these warm waters could be a place to begin.
  • Warm Waters halt, similar to the above, but referring to a dam, reservoir, or something of the sort.

Addition/Update: On Dal’s site, scrapbook 68, is the following quote.  It informs us that WWWH (where warm waters halt) of the poem does NOT relate to any dam.

“Many searchers have thought that warm waters halt at a dam because water being released through flues near the bottom of the dam is much colder than water on the surface of the lake.  I have discussed around that subject with several people in the last few days and am concerned that not all searchers are aware of what has been said.  So to level the playing field to give everyone an equal chance I will say now that WWWH is not related to any dam.”  ff

  • Warm as in ‘heartfelt, peaceful, cozy’.  In the book, Forrest talks about places he has fished with his family and alone.  He mentions how they are ‘great places’, how others are now fishing there, and he writes;  “I hope they feel the reverence that I once did and now still do.”  These ‘fishing holes’ hold a ‘warm’ spot for Forrest.  Could they be the ‘warm waters?’  Could it begin at a fishing hole which ‘halts’ a person. (Forrest stopped to fish).  Or something like what is mentioned in the ‘Too Far to Walk’ post.
  • Many people have played the game of ‘hide and seek’.  A player says ‘you’re warm’ if you are ‘close’ and cold, if far away.  Could this meaning of ‘warm’ (close waters) halting in some way lead to a place to begin?

Update/Addition:  On 8/12/2014 Forrest answered a question about ‘where warm waters halt in ‘Featured Questions: Warm Waters and Geography’.  He said, “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f”

Please know the above are only ideas. I am sure there are many more ways to look at ‘where warm waters halt’ and the above examples should get your mind ‘warmed’ up.   I will continue to add to them.  Feel free to add your own ideas, if wanted, in the comments below.  The poem is vague and so can lead to many different places, all over the Rocky Mountains.  Forrest has said it is difficult to find, but not impossible, so….

Best of luck to you all!

(photo credit:  wikimedia: Brocken Inaglory)

57 Comments

  1. mamouth springs seems to be where warm waters halt if you read a little on Yellowstone Park, I would like the bracelet if you find it due to my speculations here, maybe he shoved it in the side of fort buildings like a cellar window and it blends in,but traveltine rock wood or stone area, don’t have a book just using poem, Mr. Fenn could give me a holler if I was close. Daniel

    Dan

  7. Dals wondering around NM…GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!

    Why doesn’t anyone ever consider Browns Park National Wildlife Refuge??? Its in the Rocky Mountains. Warm waters halt in the Flaming Gorge Reservoir (if anyone ever did their research, the Wyoming vs Utah Side). Oh wait…follow the canyon down not too far but too far to walk, again I believe Browns Park is about 15 miles away. NEXT!

    Now it just gets too damn easy. No place for the meek. Do you turds know what’s below Browns Park? That’s right, a little hideout for outlaws back in the day named Fort Misery, aka Davey Crocket! And who would hold up there in the winter (uhm, effort worth the cold) Joe MEEK! Why only winter. Look it up knuckleheads, its floods in the summer (water high). So, cold yes, paddle up your creek, NO! NEXT!

    Who else hungout there. I believe a guy named Cassidy and his buddy the Kid. I think in his book Forrest rambles about an air rifle he got and liked to pretend to be Cassidy. There’s a clue sprinkled in the stories for you. Also, sounds like a Forrest thing to do, admire the type that thru up a middle finger to the law. NEXT!

    Just kidding, I’ve literally guided you to with 50 ft of his treasure….good luck and if you find it it means Forrest Fenn’s Poem took me approximately 4 hrs to decipher, NEXT:)

    Aaron

  8. Why not New Mexico, the rocky mts. Start there and I read forrest was into history… Has anyone heard of Henry brown? He was an outlaw and lawman and associated with billy the kid? History started in Texas! Very interesting but my money is on Northern New Mexico. If not found by next year, my kids and I are going to travel there, as soon as I can save some money! Start at the bottom, work your way up the Rockies!

    Lori

  10. Jenny, regarding Brown Park___I’m with you! Brown Park was named for the fur trapper Baptiste Brown also known as Jean-Baptiste Chalifoux (a French Candian Trapper from Taos, New Mexico). He homesteaded down river from Brown Park (his namesake) at the confluence of Vermillion Creek and the Green River that gets it flow upstream from the Flaming Gorge Reservoir. I have called the local ranger stations to locate historical markers (blaze) in the area but to no avail. Missing in that location is Heavy Loads, but maybe you could find something I’m not seeing. I flew to Colorado from N. Cal to Steamboat Springs looking at another location. $2,000 later… I will keep to Google Earth untill new expected dollars come in. Good luck to you all.

    Gil

    1. Hey Gil….. Did you check out Pot creek as “the Blaze” when you were on the Green river?

      Funny you were in steamboat springs…. That was one of my solves. Did you put in under the James brown bridge? Then to the highschool that is no place for mr meek? I never went up there but always wondered. It’s Ute Indian land as well.

      -Chris

      Chris Ginsburg

  12. Every clue will be revealed exact at 1st June 2015. If Interested to know the facts with proofs than search FB for 1st June 2015 Forrest-Fenns-Treasure-Hunt….. it will solve the mystery & one person to find the treasure exact at that date.

    arslan

  13. Home of the brown seems to likey mean home of the brown trout. Meaning its in a river or creek. Which also makes sense based on the other clues in the poem. Rocky mountain national park has tons of brown trout and lots of valleys and trails that are too far to walk to their destination… at least in a day or two Haha.

    josh

  15. My thoughts on WWWH:
    Consider this sample of Forrest Fenn quotes:
    “All of this cyberspace verbiage is conspicuous by the absence of talk about where warm waters halt.”
    “You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.”
    “You have to know where warm waters halt.”
    “You’ll never find it that way. You need to start at the beginning. You need to figure out where warm waters halt.”
    “There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts”.
    “If you don’t know where warm water halts (sic), you don’t have anything.”

    Ok, ok, Forrest I get it we have to figure out where warm waters halt first. You do not have to tell me ten times!

    In my book, Finding Forrest Fenn, I put a lot of thought into each of my warm waters but as my son pointed out, I was using hot water mixed with cold water to make it warm. This technique makes it difficult to isolate the thousands of sources, but if one was to keep this clue as straight forward as possible and forget hot and stick to warm there are only a few choices.

    A warm spring is straight forward and not many exist. Why a spring? Forrest hinted to us in the book: “In the spring when the weather was warm” (More on the weather later).

    “The grass sees, and the trees and rushing waters of the spring creek also see.”

    This last example shows how Forrest uses the plural waters as a spring creek and last fall he said “if you know where the treasure is better keep it quiet until spring.”

    Now the most important part that must be considered: “halt.” Why halt? It doesn’t rhyme with walk so that word has to be important. Most feel it is either water or warm that halts but is it possible that “halt” explains where the warm waters exist? One meaning is a train stop without a station, but the common interpretation is related to the military and Germany and it is used to tell someone who is “marching” to stop.  From the Mysterious Writings blog Forrest remarked about the clues, “They’re contiguous, I knew where I wanted to hide the treasure chest so it was easy for me to put one foot down and then step on it to get to the next foot, thats what I did.” Step and foot down are very supportive of marching.

    Marching relates to the month of March when spring occurs and “Spring is the time to think.” Think about how the poem just explained that spring and in fact a “warm spring” to be specific is the source of where warm waters halt.

    So why does everyone ignore this when it is so obvious? Why does everyone continue to over complicate it even when Fenn says not to? There are some more examples that support “warm spring” that I will tie in later but the logical choice is “Warm Springs” Montana. Just far enough away from being blown to bits by the Yellowstone super volcano.

    Warm Springs is adjacent to Anaconda which I explained its significance in the last two blog posts. It has a state hospital which may explain why he said people thought he was crazy for doing this or it may explain why he said he hinted he was beat up mentally. More importantly this huge mound created by the warm water drains into a fishing pond right beside a railroad track or halt. If that is not convincing enough Warm Springs Creek intersects the Silver Bow River and that confluence maybe considered the traditional method of halting. Finally there are two tailings ponds that supported the Anaconda Smelter and I explained in my book why a tailings pond is a very good warm water source and all of these sources support the plural use of “waters.”

    In my book, I outlined Mr. Fenn’s hinting technique, he mentioned on Jenny Kile’s Mysterious Writings blog that “everyone had the same opportunity.” This comment has always stuck out in the minds of many searchers and nearby is a town called “Opportunity.” Beside Opportunity is the Fairmount Hot Springs Resort that has a spa called the Whispering Willows which is linked to the famous “it is what they whisper” quote. The spa also has a type of massage called “Indulgence” which Mr. Fenn has recently changed the name of the chest to. The Fairmont logo also is interesting and may explain all the hints of “F” and circles.

    The Wolf

    1. The Wolf, thank you for that summary.

      What bothers me about Fenn’s comments to WWWH is his statement that “there are many places where WWH”. But emphasizes to start there. If there are many places, then can we assume that only one of the places is associated with a “home of Brown”. “Brown” seems much more specific than does WWH.

      Perhaps FF is frustrated that the full puzzle might not be solved in the manner he wants. Maybe we do need to start at the beginning, but why if the beginning is solved by “many places”.

      I fear that this puzzle is something that makes perfect sense to FF, because he knows where it is and what the clues mean, but that the ultimate location is not singularly described by the puzzle. Put another way, when the location is discovered are we all going to go “oh yes, that’s it, why didn’t I think of that”, or “what?? That is what he meant by the clues? Are you kidding me?”

      I just joined this “quest” yesterday, and have not read the books yet. Perhaps the books in combination with the puzzle could produce that singular solution that would make solving the puzzle worth ones time (if only for enjoyment), but otherwise one is spinning their wheels.

      Thomas

  16. A topic which was lightly discussed 18 months ago should be given top billing in everyone’s solution.

    This is a huge and generous Give- Away that took me a year to see and prove.

    If you have a completed solution wirh longitude and latitude coordinates – that you need to find the treasure – here is one way to test if your solution works…

    The large BOLD capital letters which begin each chapter in TTOTC are all directional Symbols taken from a “32 point” Mariners Compass rose. True north is Tramontana. Yet another confirmation to Montana. NSEW plus Latin terms for secondary, tertiary directions. (See example linked)

    IF you know where to BEGIN, halt at the correct “section 32” on a surveyors or FS map; plot a cross;
    You can literally follow those directions in order from TTOTC which end at ssw or Ostro-Libeccio on a Mariners wind rose.

    https://ca.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usuari:Mcapdevila/Porto/Maps

    I hope the deeper thinking, serious searchers will use it to prove their theories.

    Keep in mind, Forrest is a navigator, collector, surveyor and loves old treasures. This is the compass that pirates and Spaniards used. >>It pays to study the brilliant man who hid the treasure.<<

    Everything is in the poem, but ttotc was provided as a supplement and is FULL of helpful information.

    42

    1. Your ideas are a blend of odd, interesting, and plausible statements. I have just recently gotten interested in the treasure hunt. I ordered Fenn’s book and plan to look for additional clues regarding a bearing to the site based on the Public Lands Survey system that divides lands into square sections (quite archaic and also not completed for certain remote parts of the western U. S.). So maybe as you intimate section 32 may be referred to in the book. I can make up my own mind when and if I read the book and where to start based on the original poem. I’ve got a suspicion that if correct, this might also give a clue that the key ground point is located along a township boundary line that is very obvious. Also, a section number is a very non-precise geographic reference.

      David

    1. Hi JC 1117 – please keep me apprised of your colophon research. My bet, due to fennian 13 yr old humor injected into TTOTC is on the Butt shape – an inside joke between Forrest and Eric Sloane. Twin butte land forms resemble a butt, and a heart. Numerous references to found, foundation, bottom, cigarette (butt), starting at the bottom, the end, etc.. Too many to ignore – and then Forrest’s is clever enough to incorporate elegance thru double omegas, tying it all together.

      42

  18. Jenny,

    Thought you might find this mildly interesting (you may already know this). From the wikipedia main page today:

    Did you know…

    … that although Shamokin Creek is a Warmwater Fishery, all of its twelve named tributaries are Coldwater Fisheries?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

    I’m aware that some puzzlers use this type of concept for “where warm waters halt”. I’m not in that group, since I believe that type of knowledge is outside the scope of what can be deduced from the poem.

    astree

    astree

    1. Hey astree, I agree. Personally believe wwwh has multiple meanings but likely refers to 32/33degree Mason. Start on land section 33/32.

      The article you attached is interesting on its own and may be related to the poem’s Uranium/Los Alamos content, but is not in reference to Coldwater fisheries. Because people consider your opinions valuable you may wish to also attach the fishing related info.

      Stade

  20. I am from Craig CO, and get to Browns PArk often. Here is my thinking
    1. I get where the warm waters end as Cold Springs Mountain
    2. Canyon Down would be Irish Canyon
    3. not to far, but to far to walk would be south of the Canyon to Browns PArk-away from Vermillion Canyon
    4. Below Browns (park)would be the Green River
    5. Then Meek er to the South or I think it may be more towards Upper Disaster Falls in Lodore Canyon which is downstream-which is not for the Meek.
    6. Gates of Lodore and the Rapids
    7. Heavy Loads, Vermilion Creek in the spring carries heavy sediment loads
    8. There was a large fire by Lodore
    9. Your effort will be worth the cold- either across the Green River, or Down Stream towards Lodore–I lean to across, before the Swinging Bridge was closed it was an easy drive and walk to the area below the blaze, numerous caves and shelters. Now just where?.

    Another possibility would be across the Green, there are some caves, a dozen or so with lots of Fremont art and such. There is a large blazed tree(lightning?) you use as a mark to get to the largest cave.

    Norm

  21. water never halts
    it always moving ever drawing nigh
    to the lowest point ,closest
    to the home of Brown ,
    the way
    or path it chooses
    with the least resistance closest to nature or earth
    so if you ask a child to read the poem
    he will tell you the gold is in the title its in the chase ff. ff Holds the chase dear and. Wants you to get back nature there’s lots of treasures to be found
    he did it
    the box I empty space waiting too be filled
    waters fill the cups space kids will tell you when you play hide and seek the game is. Over when you find it up is up down in below is in (below) brave in the wood boots on the ground go find your own treasures he’s keeping his 😭😜😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀
    you should before your week

    jojo

    1. Welcome, Victor.

      There are many places where warm waters halt.

      Pick one.

      A lot of people like Colter’s Hell and Yellowstone National Park.

      There are a LOT of places in the Rocky Mountains.

      Sorry. That doesn’t help…does it. :/

      JC1117

  24. WWWH is about the only element that I have confidence in. After I found it I wondered why it had taken me so long to find it.

    Although I now have a starting point, it has not made the task of knowing where to go from there any easier. I have had many ideas, but the relative weakness of the evidence supporting any of these ideas compared to the strength of the evidence supporting WWWH leaves me unconvinced that I have made any real further progress.

    Bownarrow

  27. North of Santa Fe N.M. are the historical WWWH (moving warm water on the train tracks and coming to a halt for high water tower tanks where heavy loads (steam engine train) has to stop every 10-15 miles to fill up. At one of the water tanks is the off road canyon down and it’s a short walk to the River Canyon. I can see trees, mountains, pine and sagebrush.

    Tracy Hulson

  29. People keep harping on Yellowstone as the obvious place for warm waters, hot springs. But that seems too obvious and warm waters exist all over the Rockies. I Don’t have a clue where warm waters halt, but I gather it’s a combination of natural features where to start and a place of beauty in all ways a natural, picturesque landscape. But it may be that there are ancient dwelling sites, at least nearby, old and new treasures, maybe where there was old and new use of natural habitats. In modern times it could mean when natural phenomenon and locations are now preserved. If you recall, the treasure was hidden around the same year Obama declared Browns Canyon a national monument. I suspect one can take all of the poem literally, but the literal interpretation might not be obvious till one finds the actual general area first and even then it might be hard to interpret, since so much of what’s in the clues are so ambiguous, you can’t see it till a number of combinations make complete sense. And all of the posts I have read on this subject always seem to have something that doesn’t make complete sense.

    I’d be curious to know if the surrounding landscape of the hidden treasure is picturesque enough to have been filmed in a movie setting, but I suspect that’s a clue that Fenn might not want to divulge, since most movies made in that area weren’t filmed but in a few and limited parts of that area and much of those might not fit all the combinations in the clues. Fenn wont be that specific, but it’s yet another possible way of finding the location, but it’s a chore going over all movies made there, doing that much research. The other thing is that whether or not a waterfall has anything to do with where warm waters halt or not, I have a strong suspicion there’s a waterfall not far from the actual site of the treasure. That given the right angle to the sun at some specific time of day one can see a rainbow, perhaps somewhere between the treasure and the water fall, who’s spray blazes the location. Just letting my imagination going wild there. It probably wont work that way.

    Francis T. Fontaine

    1. Yellowstone literally yells the treasure is here 😵😆…
      However it only worked rationally for me up to the point where ff said if the Yellowstone volcano blew he didn’t think it would affect the chest/Indulgence. Methinks you would need to be several states away.

      Stade

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