Where Warm Waters Halt has been a hot topic since the 2010 release of Forrest Fenn’s treasure poem. Searchers continue to discuss the multiple interpretations and possible meanings to this poem line today. And rightly so, for many, it is the starting point of where to look for Forrest Fenn’s hidden treasure chest; an 1150AD bronze chest filled with gold and other valuables worth over a million dollars. If you find it, you can keep it.
Somewhere in the Rocky Mountains north of Santa Fe is where warm waters halt. That is known. What also is known about this believed Clue to the treasure is that there are actually many of them in the Rocky Mountains. This was told to us when Forrest answered the following question: (featured-questions-with-forrest-warm-waters-and-geography)
Q)Someone unfamiliar with your poem receives a message that says “meet me where warm waters halt, somewhere in the mountains north of Santa Fe”. Would they be able to work out where to go? If they can’t, would they need the whole poem, another stanza, or just a line or word to help them on their way? ~Phil Bayman
A)There are a few words in the poem that are not useful in finding the treasure Phil, but it is risky to discount any of them. You over simplify the clues. There are many places in the Rocky Mountains where warm waters halt, and nearly all of them are north of Santa Fe. Look at the big picture, there are no short cuts. f
I’m fully aware we each bring our own ideas into the mix when we try and understand the correct meanings to words in the poem in order to find Forrest’s Treasure Chest. We wonder what Forrest was thinking when he wrote the poem. We know he wanted the poem to lead a person to the place of his hidden treasure which has been held special by him for a long time. He has said (in questions with Forrest):
“The spot where I hid the treasure was in my mind from the time I first started thinking about the chase. It is special to me and there was never another consideration. I was going to make it work no matter what. In my reverie I often find myself stealing away to that place and I will always consider it to be mine alone. f”
So how can we go about searching for Where Warm Waters Halt, Canyon Down, Home of Brown, the Blaze, etc.? And feel like we can confidently walk to the treasure because we understand and have deduced the entire poem’s meaning and directed location?
How does Forrest think we can do this?
In a statement made by Forrest he said we might use some logic:
“It seems logical to me that a deep thinking treasure searcher could use logic to determine an important clue to the location of the treasure. Is someone doing that now and I don’t know it? It’s not what they say on the blogs that may be significant, it’s what they whisper. f”
Again, we can each interpret Forrest’s statements differently, and it is important to keep an open mind and not become set on any one thought. Every time I think to myself, ‘something MUST imply this or that’ in the poem, I quickly remind myself of the following example of images and how things can change drastically in the blink of an eye from appreciating another perspective.
Take a look at the image below. Many would see and describe a young woman who is rather stylish, looking off to the side, and wearing a necklace.
But if you were given the next image, you would most likely describe an old woman with a big nose, and see more of a homely looking person.
Here is the Image with both shadings and from different perspectives; you can see how both are right and both are wrong.
Those who saw a young lady and those who saw the old lady debate with each other on what they see and both wonder why can’t the other person see what they see. Perspectives. And when you allow yourself to let go of your own perspective to see and understand the other person’s perspective, you realize, ‘wow, it’s not as clear as I thought.’
And so for myself, in thinking about the Treasure’s Location, it’s not a MUST be situation.
I continue to wonder, What is Forrest’s perspective?
Until the chest is found, no one can say they know it for certain. A slight change with perspective and everything changes, as demonstrated in the above images.
So when I share the following idea for Where Warm Waters Halt, please realize it is just one of my many muses and comes from a viewpoint I have had. Not my only one, and certainly not my last.
Anyone who has read Forrest Fenn’s Memoir, The Thrill of the Chase, realizes he is a bit of a maverick. A person with a curious nature. I love it. For example, this is evident from his story about how he and Donny set off to find Lewis and Clark. He wanted to explore.
I find this character of his intriguing when considering possible meanings to lines in his poem: Especially Where Warm Waters Halt.
I can imagine Forrest fishing in the Madison, and wondering, not only where does this river go, but also where does this river originate? Where is the Wellspring of these waters? As many know, the Firehole river flows into the Madison, and so Forrest might also wonder where does the Firehole begin? Or he might wonder where other warm/close to heart fishing streams originate.
A wellspring is the beginning of waters. Although many may think waters might halt somewhere ‘downstream’, what about ‘upstream’? What if you were following a stream upwards to discover where it originated and you came upon the source of it? Perhaps warm waters halt here? Perhaps this is where warm waters halt for Forrest. The stream halts at the beginning as well because you can’t follow it anymore a top ground. Your search, exploration, and warm waters have halted.
What I find most interesting about this interpretation is the poem says, ‘Begin where warm waters halt’, which in the above thought is a wellspring. There is a popular Proverb which refers to the Heart as the Wellspring of life.
In Six Questions (2013), Forrest said,
“The person who finds the treasure will have studied the poem over and over, and thought, and analyzed and moved with confidence. Nothing about it will be accidental.”
And then he quoted T.S. Eliot:
“We shall not cease from our exploration
And at the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time”
I find it intriguing that if we begin where warm waters halt, the heart, and at the end of all our exploring we might know it for the first time.
We know the place is special to Forrest. The saying, “For where your treasure is, there will be your heart also” comes to mind.
Could the ‘beginning’ be the Heart, a wellspring, and once our exploring is done, we would know the place of treasure: Forrest’s special place, and our own.
Best of luck with The Thrill of the Chase and all that you seek. Treasure the Adventure!
Nice Jenny,
I’ve seen these ‘girl’, ‘old lady’ drawings before. But I don’t remember where.
Excellent perspective.
Thank You for posting Ms. Kile, I believe I saw the third drawing in my Psychology class in college. I was only given the third and asked what I saw… and both ladies were very evident to me.
I think perspective is a critical part of solving the poem. You can be off track, or right on it, from the get go by your perspective.
To me, that means don’t get locked in to one perspective.
Explore all possibilities.
As you said, Jenny, “keep an open mind”.
But Forrest also said “don’t mess with my poem” (or something to that affect).
Yet he said that he likes to play with words.
These two things are more to keep in mind while we decrypt Forrest’s puzzle.
Thank Jenny. That was well written and thoughtful.
I agree with your “perspective” theory. I have been using the term “context”. Depending on the context of a situation, an observer will have a different perspective. It is hard for the hurried to get out of the connect-the-dots golden treasure frame of mind, though.
Like the backwards bike, I think with practice a person can learn to switch between contexts and get moving in the right direction.
I believe nothing is at it seems. Especially terms that are relative. e.g. ‘Not far but too far to walk’ is different for everyone
‘Warm’ is also relative and I’ll bet anyone a dollar that ‘Warm Waters’ has nothing to do with hot springs.
Hi Jenny,
Guess great minds think alike. I also proposed the “waters halt where the stream begins” theory. Here: http://dalneitzel.com/2015/07/18/warm-springs-one/
It does seem very Fenn-like.
Cheers, Marvin
Thank you Jenny and Forrest. 🙂
Hi Jenny, I enjoyed your read. I agree about perception and perspective.
I also agree that the wellspring is WWH. It is one of my theories on WWH. I have 2.
The other is a Mountain or hill. Think uphill. Warm waters halt going uphill like an aquaduct. A simple idea and answer that can be understood by a child and big enough to see on a map of the rockies. And most are north of Sante Fe. Unlike my first theory which I really like on wellspring, most are not north of Santé fe, wellsprings are found everywhere.
I like them both though and work my solves from both.
Jenny, look at the map that Forrest points to the three billy goats. It is a map of new mexico, I am not advocating New Mexico, just the map. Anyhow look straight backwards from the billy goats. There is a wishing well. A wishing well is a wellspring where imagination runs wild at the end of our rainbow.
Thanks Jenny
As you so clearly pointed out, we each perceive the world based on our past experiences and biases. Some see the glass half full while others see the glass as half empty. We see the young woman, or we see the old hag. Some can see both – I can. Some see the world through the eyes of a tired old man or woman while others, regardless of age, see the world through the eyes of a child. The question is. “How does Forrest view the world?” Or, “How does Forrest want us to view the world?” To me, Forrest is a straight-forward thinking man who has the mind of an Einstein, while jumping in mud puddles with his grand-kids and enjoying it as much as they are.
So, where does this leave us as regardding wwwh? I think that it is far more direct and simple than most make it out to be. To me, any place where a smaller body of water (WARM) meets a larger of body (COOLER) – it “Halts” or converges. The WARM small body merges with the larger COOLER body. It ceases to exist as a WARM body and becomes a “COOLER body. Of course, there are MANY, MANY such places in the Rockies, and most are north of Santa Fe. So, which one is it?
For me, the answer was found in stanza #6. Something I found there told me where to look “in there” in stanza #1. this led me to wwwh. It was not easy, but not impossible. A bit of Einstein, (Which I am not) and a bit of how a kid (Which I am, in a 74 year old body) would look at the world.
Hopefully in August, I will FINALLY be able to prove what I have dreamed up with my two remaining brain cells.
JD
Clue #1 a man in there ALONE= (Hermit)s Peak Clue#2 I can keep my SECRET= Las Vegas N.M. Clue #3 WWWH = Montazoma N.M. Clue#4 in the CANYON DOWN = all the way to the end of the canyon, Clue # 4 put in below THOB= enter into Hermit’s Peak forest reserve, down the road from The Middleton’s Brown Trout hatchery, Clue#5 no place for the MEEK= from that point the road gets rough, Clue #6 heavy loads= very large granite rock just over head , Clue #7 Water high = you must ford the river a few times with no bridges , Clue #8 Found the BLAZE = If your wise at the end of the road just look to the left at that giant granite rock on the hill all by its self, its right there 200ft away ( don’t have to find it , you already FOUND it
Hello, responding to Thomas: sounds like you are on to something? Have you looked around the huge granite rock?
Thanks rick
Thank you Rick, finally someone responding to my solve. The answer is no, I took off out there from Mo. and made it within ten mile of my destination when my transmission went out, my wife grounded me after that one, she sent me a train ticket back, Wow! I am still 110% sure it there, what to do ? I recently found a story in a old Cowboy Reunion called ” Half Way To Heaven “, this story takes you to the same spot, so crazy and just to many things match up. I will post this story
First rick follow on Google Earth if you can because you will not believe this, turn on pictures and Hwys. road also places on Google Earth. OK, ( As I’ve gone alone in there, and with my treasure’s bold, ) = Forrest is a man and a man alone is a HERMIT. Hermit’s Peak is just northeast of Santa Fe in the search area. ( I can keep my secret where, and hint of riches new and old,) = The only way to get to Hermit’s Peak is to go to Las Vegas New Mexico, now everyone knows you can keep a secret iin Vegas, what happens in Vegas stay’s in Vegas. In order for Forrest to show you he means Las Vegas New Mexico the next sentence says and a hint of riches new and old. If you click on Las Vegas New Mexico on Google Earth it will read the town is split into by The Galliunas River, one side is new Vegas and the other old town Vegas, and between the both they only have a hint of riches compared to Las Vegas NV. ( begin it where warm waters halt, and take it in the canyon down,) = begin it, first this is what Forrest means when he says ( in there ) In there is The Galliunas Canyon , leaving Vegas towards Hermit’s Peak you come to the beginning of the canyon at Montazoma New Mexico, there along the road are some hot spring’s, click on the picture icon of the springs, one closes to the road you will see it is called ( cooler then a hot spring ) they halt in some very old rocked up tubs. You begin your journey in there through The Galliunas Canyon, witch the meaning of the word’s canyon down is ( all the way to the end of the canyon ) Are you still with me? not far but too far to walk, this part Forrest needs you to go along ways into the canyon, stay on Forrest Road, yes Forrest Road through The Galliunas Canyon. ( put in below the home of Brown,) = stop at the intersection where Forrest Road will turn left and Forrest Road will continue straight. Straight ahead up the road if you look on Google Earth you can’t miss a place with a lot of pond around it, I found out that Charlie and Nena Middleton ran a camp with cabins and a, get this a Brown Trout Fishery and they would release them in the Galliunas River. No joke look this up! So at the intersection you ( put in ) which means to enter below the Middleton’s . Straight ahead we go. On Google Earth you will see a cattle garde on the road there, you enter a Forrest Reserve, ( from there it’s no place for the meek,) the road starts to get bad and their will be no paddles up your creek , because your on the road and there are giant granite rock hanging over head and crossing the river without a bridge a few times, will make you say to yourself ,heavy loads and water high. You can see this from Google Earth too! At this point Forrest does not want you to back out and give up because he states the end is ever drawing nigh. Stay on the road pass the Middleton’s, just to the right and you can’t miss it is a large granite rock on the hill behind the Middleton’s, again with Google Earth you can’t miss it Because if your wise and found the blaze, meaning you don’t have to leave your car to try to find the blaze, you will know you FOUND the blaze. Forrest Road ends right there , go ahead get out go up on top of the rock , walk to the edge and quickly look down. Your quest to cease!!! What I don’t know or can see from Google Earth is what will be worth the cold?? I can only believe when Forrest says if your braze and in the wood, I give you title to the gold, means on the inside of the lid of the chest is a piece of wood and behind it is the paperwork signed by Forrest and his lawyer giving the title to the finder.
Wow,I’m fascinated! I live in Albuquerque and just came across this last night when I couldn’t sleep. I briefly heard of this in the news years ago. I got so interested I couldn’t sleep and read till very late. When I was a kid I thought of looking for the lost Dutchman mine in the southwest. Maybe I’ll grab my son off his video games and go hunt for it sometime! Are you ever going to come back and find it???
Not looking good for me rick, it’s not to far, but it’s too far for me to walk. Ha,ha,. That’s why I put my solve out there like I did, I would like someone from Albuquerque along with his son to check it out for me, just don’t for get me😀. The thing is, it all works with the poem 110% in my mind but in Forrest’s mind he could be looking at something all together different. Long trip to come up empty handed. Oh and I would have to find a new place to live! The lost Dutchmen mine is a cool story, I’ve read about that, is the mountain call Superspecies Mountain? A man would follow the Dutchmen but couldn’t all the way, but on his death bed he was going to tell the man how to get there if would also take some of his gold to his sister because he felt bad for killing his sister son, but he died before giving all the directions to the mine. There is a rock that looks like a man’s face and the opening is close to an old settlement, he covered iit with large planks and put rocks and dirt on top.Cool story,
Hey, I’m heading up right now with my son! I googled earth for the first time last night. I saw everything u said except the granite rock? I’m sure I’ll see it in person in a few hours. I saw the road ended in a roundabout circle. I read somewhere f said you will need a flashlight(cave). I also read elsewhere it will be WET? We will see???
Thanks MUCH rick
You can’t miss that granite rock rick, it’s on the right on the hill be four the round about, looks like it has a lower edge to it to . contact me at thomasconrad75@yahoo.com if you need! That’s awsome
You better be careful, f has stated “it is not in a mine… there are snakea inthose places. Beat of luck, but stay safe!
Rick emailed me about his adventure, no treasure yet but him and his son had an awesome time and planing another trip. Happy to here they are safe and going again! Thank you rick and I will e-mail you some new info, you should post your adventure way cool.
I agree with the idea that the poem takes us to a place that makes us realize where the treasure is, although this may be a different place. I have felt very strongly about certain clues, that take me to a place south of Sante Fe New Mexico; knowing that the only purpose of going would be to find a clue that leads elsewhere…. in some cases representative with places on the opposite end of the Rockies.
I also think that the quote may indicate that when we find the treasure, we will then, and only then, realize why that place was chosen…and what happened there to make it special.
I, too, feel very strongly one day, and sometimes very different another. That is why sharing is nice….usually to gain support for a temporary thought.