Forrest Fenn, the Poem, and Use of a Thesaurus

ThesaurusTo understand what Forrest Fenn is exactly referring to in his poem, which leads a person to his hidden treasure chest filled with over a million dollars’ worth of gold and other valuable jewels, is the key to finding his treasure.  Both a Dictionary and a Thesaurus may be helpful in expanding a searcher’s thoughts for this.

Forrest has chosen his words carefully.  He said he took 15 years to write the poem, changed it many times, and felt like he was an architect by crafting every word within it.  In the preface of his book, The Thrill of the Chase, he states, “I tend to use some words that aren’t in the dictionary, and others that are, I bend a little.”  Although this statement was more in reference to his book, since the poem is in the book, we can assume he might have bent some words in the poem.

A perfect example of him twisting word meanings is found in an answer to a question asked in Questions with Forrest on this site.  It is as follows:

  • Mr. Fenn, Would you want the person that finds your treasure to admire the place where it rests? ~Andrew
  • Well Andrew, I’m not sure “admire” is the right word but if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there. I like the way you think Andrew. f

Looking into a Thesaurus may help us realize the many different meanings a word can take on and how Forrest may have used or bent them.  Below are my notes I took on some of the main words used in the poem.  It is not a comprehensive list, and is only meant to spur the mind.  The list helps remind me the subtle uses and variations word meanings can have and then be used.  I hope to share a ‘definition of words’ post later.  This can get even more interesting.

I know we each follow our own pathways in attempt to discover the final resting place of Forrest’s treasure. The following is only an example of a mere side path I like to stroll along once in a while; to maybe offer support for a main path I might be working on.

Each time I read the list, different thoughts arise.  Just today, as I was copying it over for this post, the synonym for ‘secret’ caught my attention.  One of the synonyms for ‘secret’ is ‘underground’.  Applied this way, the poem might actually imply or be bent to say the ‘secret where’ or the ‘location of the treasure’ is ‘underground’.  Maybe not ‘buried’, but underground like in a cave or crevice.

Words and their synonyms: (poem lines in BOLD)

 

As I have gone alone in there
Alone-unaided, only, lonely, solo, deserted, with nothing else

And with my treasures bold,
Bold- brave, daring, confident, forthright

I can keep my secret where,
Secret- undisclosed, mystery, private, underground

And hint of riches new and old.
Riches- treasures, reserves, abundant,
New- original, different, latest, recent
Old- aged, outdated, previous, time-worn

 

Begin it where warm waters halt
Begin- originate, instigate, start, launch
Warm- heartfelt, temperate, lively, friendly, tender
Halt- standstill, pause, discontinue, stop, freeze, end

And take it in the canyon down,
Down- downward, unhappy, list, inoperative, losing, feathers

Not far, but too far to walk.
Far- distantly, much, great, remote
Walk- stride, stroll, hike, pace, move

Put in below the home of Brown.
Below- under, beneath, lower
Home-dwelling, place of birth

 

From there it’s no place for the meek,
Place- home, position, location, area, spot, point
Meek- humble, gentle, mild, fearful, timid

The end is ever drawing nigh;
End- finish, edge, boundary, border, purpose, leftover, death, close
Drawing- sketch, pulling, getting, extracting, equaling
Nigh- close, near, approaching, left,

There’ll be no paddle up your creek,
Paddle- oar, bat (n) :  splash, row (v)
Creek-  stream, arroyo, inlet, brook, cove

Just heavy loads and water high.
Heavy- hefty, full, demanding, intense, powerful, deep, extreme, gloomy,
Loads- burden, cargo, shipment
High- tall, great, extreme, piercing (high-pitched), towering, lofty, important, superior

 

If you’ve been wise and found the blaze,
Wise- intelligent, clever, knowledgeable, cunning, artful
Blaze- glow, fire, brightness

Look quickly down, your quest to cease,
Look- gaze, observe, watch, view, regard, explore, eye
Quickly- fast, rapidly, promptly, suddenly, immediately
Quest- mission, search, hunt, chase
Cease- stop, finish, end, conclude

But tarry scant with marvel gaze,
Tarry- stay, remain, linger, delay, wait
Scant- little, limited, measly, slight
Marvel- genius, prodigy, wonder, curiosity, admire, awe
Gaze- stare, watch, look

Just take the chest and go in peace.
Peace-calm, quiet, harmony,

 

So why is it that I must go
Go- die, leave, depart, quit, exit, expire

And leave my trove for all to seek?
Leave- donate, give, depart, abandon, avoid, put,
Seek- pursue, strive for, search, hunt out

The answers I already know,
Answer- solution, reaction, remedy, key
Know- understand, realize, discern, identify, grasp, experience

I’ve done it tired, and now I’m weak.
Done- completed, finished, fixed, ensured, achieved
Tired- weary, worn-our, exhausted, drained, fatigued
Weak- frail, exhausted, feeble, vulnerable, low, powerless

 

So hear me all and listen good,
Hear- perceive, heed, hearken, consider, undestand
Listen- attend, take note, heed
Good- moral, virtuous, clear, nice, valuable, useful, polite, decent

Your effort will be worth the cold.
Effort- energy, struggle, endeavor, work, labor
Worth- value, appeal, cost, merit, importance
Cold- emotionless, icy, distant, remote, chilly, frost, uncaring, freezing

If you are brave and in the wood
Brave- (adj) courageous, daring, fearless:  (v) endure, face
Wood- timber, forest, copse, thicket, kindling

I give you title to the gold.
Title- ownership, name, claim, designation
Gold- treasure, title

 

Best of luck with whatever you seek!

Please feel free to friend/follow me as I continue to share thoughts on The Thrill of the Chase and other treasure hunts.

 

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108 Responses

  1. E* says:

    Jenny – Great post! In my Google Translate adventures with Astree,…I discovered that putting in the word in English,…and then translating to Latin,…delivered lots of ideas for related words,…as in this example using the word “secret”:

    https://translate.google.com/#en/la/secret

    Sometimes I would divide the word into two parts, also,…and in this case,…I got “he Crete”,…and related that to Icarus,…and that labyrinth that his father built,…in a post some time ago.

    I saw the word ‘fault’ above,…which may just have created such a ‘crevice’ as you described above,…near my spot.

    • E* says:

      Jenny – And sometimes I divide the word AND detect the language,…so in this case,…the Romanian:

      https://translate.google.com/#auto/en/se%20cret

      ‘Is Curly’ and the translation showing ‘underground’,…made me think of a winding underground cavern,…like the one Becky and Tom find themselves in,…in that “Adventures of Tom Sawyer” story:

      http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81dJcIOBlAL._SY355_.jpg

      • lia says:

        uhumm, E* do you think you can smell pine needles or see anything in a cavern like that one?
        and do you think Forrest really wanted to be in a dark, damp place. Nope, I think he would want to rest beneath a pine overlooking something like the Madison River, or Grayling creek.

        • E* says:

          lia – Forrest could have hauled a whole heck of a lot of pine boughs,…into a cavern or crevace,…to be pillowed down and scented in,…while he enjoyed his last moments on the Earth,…underground. I see him enjoying the beauty of his church in the mountains,…for a great deal of time,…prior to those ending moments. My theory is that using river rock to seal himself into said tomb,…prevents the discovery of his body,…and the gnawing on it by pesky critters like My Grizz and the Wolves that frequent my search area. We’re talking about his VERY LAST moments here,…so he wouldn’t have had much awareness after that of his surroundings. He said he did not change the location of his final resting place,…when he hid the Bronze Chest in it.

          • lia says:

            Yes E* you are truly wise, not a wise guy:-). That would answer pillowed down and scented in – if we add either an eider down or Brutus to his spot to snuggle up to.

            • E* says:

              lia – Or,…Forrest might prefer to “snuggle up to” a KODIAK Brown bear,…like this one (Bart the Bear II’s namesake):

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuTRJ89xTc
              (@ 6:42)

              Note: that the beginning of that segment shows the old man,…just after falling from his position of “high regard”,…on his burial platform.

            • E* says:

              lia – Although I have posted this already on another blog,…I will post it here,…because this poem fits into our current discussion (and Jackie Kennedy recited it often for her husband,…since it was his favorite):

              http://www.bartleby.com/104/121.html

              God knows ’twere better to be deep
              Pillowed in silk and scented down,
              Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,
              Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
              Where hushed awakenings are dear…
              But I’ve a rendezvous with Death
              At midnight in some flaming town,
              When Spring trips north again this year,
              And I to my pledged word am true,
              I shall not fail that rendezvous.

      • Liviu says:

        E*

        The actual translation for “is curly” – “este cret”
        Example: “Parul meu este cret” – “My hair is curly”

        “se cret” doesn’t make sense in Romanian.
        One more thing: the “t” in “cret” is not actually pronounced “t” but “tz” like in “tzar”

        • E* says:

          Liviu – I think there is a way to give feedback on Google Translate,…if you like:

          https://translate.google.com/#ro/en/cret

          • E* says:

            Liviu – And you wrote:

            “se cret” doesn’t make sense in Romanian.
            One more thing: the “t” in “cret” is not actually pronounced “t” but “tz” like in “tzar”

            Did I see somewhere,…way back when,…where the line, in question, in The Poem,…was written as follows in one place?:

            “I can keep my secrets where”

            And as to the Romanian translation,…a searcher made this observation:

            “He’s not going to put an X on the map. You have to figure out an X yourself. (In hindsight, I think it’s clever that when giving a 10th clue Forrest mentioned an X. The Roman numeral for 10 is X.)”

            • E* says:

              Liviu – Here’s the link,…where I got that quote (and where I found the “secrets” = your “se cretz” pronunciation reference):

              http://cgknight.com/the-forrest-for-the-trees/

              “Then I looked at the last letters of each state, A-A-S-A. The first four lines of the 9-clue poem start with A-A-I-A. I had three A’s and an S. That seemed to point out the third line, “I can keep my secrets where.” If you put the S with the I you can spell IS, or SI which is Spanish for “Yes.”..”

              I guess they saw that spelling “secrets”, too,…over on Dal’s,…back then.

  2. Hank says:

    Super insightful, nice. Thanks for doing some legwork. I have worked this angle a little bit, but not comprehensibly, so thanks. It seems f has put emphasis a couple different times on the fact that people don’t always know all the meanings of words. We should take heed.

  3. Project Why says:

    You are a smart girl Jenny. Like the way you think. 🙂 I made a similar list myself a long time ago and have used it as such, along with the dictionary, Latin, Native American References and other meanings. IMO, Probably don’t need all that. I do like the Thesaurus though.

    Thesaurus:
    Word Origin & History
    thesaurus 1823, “treasury, storehouse,” from L. thesaurus “treasury, treasure,” from Gk. thesauros “a treasure, treasury, storehouse, chest,” from root of tithenai “to put, to place.” The meaning “encyclopedia filled with information” is from 1840, but existed earlier as thesaurarie (1592), used as a title by early dictionary compilers. Meaning “collection of words arranged according to sense” is first attested 1852 in Roget’s title. Thesaur is attested in M.E. with the meaning “treasure” (15c.-16c.).

    🙂 🙂

  4. Don says:

    Thanks Jenny for this post. It’s always good to remind us that somethings aren’t as they may seem at first glance. I actually started a chart with various definitions to words and tried to match them together with the main words as they did in the sentences. It quickly got out of hand and if it was on actual paper I would have burned it. I did keep the lists of different meanings of the words though. 🙂

  5. astree says:

    .
    Thanks for the list, Jenny. I believe thinking like that is one of the critical aspects to this puzzle.

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    This will be a bit tangential, but as a sort of self-referencing statement, one of my favorites:

    take the chest and go in p EA ce

    where EA mean “river”

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    take it in the canyon down

    where “canyon” can mean “gully”
    ……… “down” can indicate south
    .
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    At one point, you had mentioned that one first needs to put all (or as many as you can find) pieces on the table, then try to see what might fit together. I think this exercise is one aspect of gathering pieces.

    astree

  6. astree says:

    .
    “if we twist it a little maybe we can make it work. The word means approval or high regard. So it works. I sure feel that way or I would not have hidden it there.”

    Interesting series …. he uses the word “it” quite abit, and buries “it” in “little”

    twist it “a little”

    Since E* brought up the translate aspect, anagram for “a little” is “title al”, or using the Spanish

    “title to the” …

    title ala mode
    .

    • E* says:

      Astree – the word in question,…to twist,…was ‘admire’,…ergo:

      ad mire > ad lutum > the mud

      If “IT” is what I think “IT” is,…then mud is deposited where The Madison River (or another aptly named creek) has a “twist” to “IT”,…like where there is an Omega-like horseshoe bend,…or a lazy “S”. Fly fisherman “admire” places like these.

      And I think this definition of ‘tarry’ should be considered,…since many have considered a ‘scant’ to be a flat rock:

      Definitions of tarry
      adjective
      of, like, or covered with tar.
      “a length of tarry rope”

      Think: Pine Pitch. 🙂

      • E* says:

        Astree – I have envisioned Forrest putting the ‘scant’,…shown directly above his cowboy hat,…in this photo (the one with the papers on top,…maybe that’s “the title to the gold”?),…into a backpack,…and hiking around his favorite places in New Mexico,…at altitude. That would certainly have gotten him in shape for carrying the Bronze Chest,…and then the treasure contents,…in two trips,…to his “secret where”,…right? And then he could have taken a practice run,…when he dropped off said ‘scant’,…to scope out the area,…on a previous excursion:

        http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/home-feature-images/SanLazFF-home.jpg

        • Ed says:

          E – thanks for pointing that picture out. I was looking for piled rocks in the book and now I see that so maybe it means something dunno as far as the scant black above his head not sure. What if the scant he is referring to is a black flint NOW THAT would be hard to find. The other pile of rocks is in the skunk chapter.

      • astree says:

        E* –

        Lots of good things in there. A while ago, I was thinking

        a fen for-rest

        and that might keep some of your ideas in play.

        astree

      • anna says:

        E* you’re rather pitchy today. Please listen to Forrest playing the piano, it may help you. Just kidding. In ‘keep’ing with your line of thought… I also believe there is a type of fortress surrounded by a bit of a fen. once in the keep, my jury’s still out on the particular hidey hole, but it’s definitely a hole imo. Listen good may be a whooo sound of the wind through wood or rocks. The chest could lay hidden in a small rock cairn concealed by sage brush; covered by a rock with pitch and pine needles; in the cleft of a rock on end, or near the base of a tree. Something definitely covers the top. See definitions for hat, since hat must go.

    • Joe says:

      add another L to title and you could anagram to little but fenn said no annagram

      • 49 dollers says:

        Hey Joe, i cant find anywhere that Fenn said no anagrams. could you cite that for me. Anagrams are just letters rearranged an a is still an a etc. no code needed, though the definition is not real clear in most dictionaries , maybe you could ask Forrest his definition of anagram, so you can be sure.
        Anagrams are fun, one i really like is ” Forrest Burke Fenn” anagrams to ” Born Free Fun Treks”

        Thanks Jenny for the GREAT site!

  7. Helen says:

    Jenny, this is a very interesting discussion, but I think I may have missed something.

    You cite Forrest’s response as “a perfect example of him twisting word meanings” but you don’t explain how you think he twisted the word. Even though Forrest says that he *did* twist the word, he ended up agreeing that the dictionary definition was in fact appropriate! Remember that the person who posed the question made no restrictions on what it meant, so any common interpretation of the word “admire” was OK – no twisting required.

    So is there anything here that *was* twisted? The term “high regard” sticks out, because it’s understood to be metaphorical in this application – we don’t literally “look up” to something or someone that we admire. Is *this* the twist? Do we have to look up when we reach the place where the treasure rests?

    • E* says:

      Helen – When I worked in retail,…the owner of the store said that the best way to prevent someone finding an item in the store,…was to put it up above eye level. That may also be a great way for Forrest to have hidden the Bronze Chest. Maybe we have to “look quickly down”,…from a blaze on high,…to see the Bronze Chest,…which has been placed in “high regard”,…above eye level,…but below that blaze? It looks like Forrest put the items in his gallery EVERYWHERE, though:

      http://www.oldsantafetradingco.com/assets/home-feature-images/home-forrest-large.jpg

      • E* says:

        Helen – And here is another “twist” on your “high regard” observation:

        How about the Proud vs. the Humble?

        – The Proud hold their heads up high (due to the “high regard” they have received from others, usually)

        – The Humble bow their heads (probably not wanting the “high regard” or “approval” of others,…or maybe just not needing it?)

        And when the Humble bow their heads,…they “look quickly down”,…to find the best blaze of all,…the wisdom and compassion in their very own hearts (= “your quest to cease”). Get it? The Chest/Heart connection? 🙂

        • E* says:

          Helen – I like how Benjamin Franklin put it:

          “The heart of a fool is in his mouth, but the mouth of a wise man is in his heart.”
          ― Benjamin Franklin

        • In my opinion if you post nonsense you should be thrown off the blog. I could start naming names but I won’t there are dozens of names posting nonsense on this blog and on Dals Blog I don’t believe they believe what they’re saying it’s just muddying The waters more. Why post stuff you don’t believe in and no one else would buy into it because it’s not elegant or well thought out –Forrest Fenn certainly wouldn’t. No you know want i’m going to name names.

          Eliza
          Charlie
          Astree

          Are you guys really even searching or are you just messing around I haven’t seen anything that makes any sense from you guys in a long time. Go take another hit of acid it’ll do you good .

          • E* says:

            Jenny – Speaking of being “thrown off the blog”,…and searchers who are posting “negativity” on your blog, here,…do you have The Holy Hand Grenade handy,…to nuke this “Generally Pissed off” person??? Your prompt assistance would be appreciated. 🙂

            And my handle is E*,…as you well know,…not to be confused with “Eliza”.

          • E* says:

            Generally Pissed off – You wrote:

            “Go take another hit of acid it’ll do you good .”

            So,…this is for you:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4q1zZkxhSo

            “Imagination is more important than knowledge.”
            – Albert Einstein

        • anna says:

          E* what a terrific interpretation. Love your humble Chest/Heart connection. High regard = humble, bow low and you’ll see hiding space. Brave rhymes with cave, but you can’t smell pine needles and see anything in a cavern. Perhaps others have passed away in this area, thus it should be carefully respected. When Forrest says no one will “Trip” over the chest, he could have meant rest in peace at a tree or cross, in addition to not physically tripping because it’s concealed either high or low.

          • E* says:

            anna – Why did your cave reference make me think of the ‘Vena Cava’ = ‘Hollow Vein’ anatomy of the Heart?:

            http://www.daviddarling.info/images/vena_cava.jpg

            I think Jenny mentioned a cave above,…in reference to the word ‘secret’.

            • anna says:

              E* you are very intuitive. Didn’t Forrest mention his surgeon needing to go beyond and the vena cava. Addtionally, TTOTC illustration with Skipping driving off w/o F shows sage brush on the right hand side with the words, “inCave” hidden in the brush. I’m still curious how may of the illustrations Forrest doctored up.

              • E* says:

                anna – You wrote:

                “Addtionally, TTOTC illustration with Skipping driving off w/o F shows sage brush on the right hand side with the words, “inCave” hidden in the brush.”

                A searcher over at Dal’s,…named Tom,…posted this recently:

                “..then brother Skippy tragically drowns in 90 feet of water in a cave in Cozumel, Mexico, in the 1970’s”

                That seems to fit the illustration you described. What a terrible tragedy. 🙁

            • anna says:

              As long as were trotting out our pony called CAVE today, lets look inside his mouth. Backwards, we have E vac as in evacuate the cave. or perhaps a road named after you C-see Avenue E 🙂 kidding around. On a more serious note, ave in Spanish renders high regard.

          • E* says:

            anna – I have posted this image before,…in relation to the line:

            “Why(Y) is it that I must go?”

            http://www.archives.gov/research/native-americans/pictures/images/indians-018a.jpg

            But I think it fits into our “high regard” discussion,…and your “rest in peace at a tree or cross, in addition to not physically tripping because it’s concealed either high or low” comment,…and smelling pine needles up close (up in the ef-ffort). And then there is the Native American connection to your comment you made below, “could also be predators, old battle ground”. The tree burial was partly intended to prevent predators and scavengers from desecrating the body. And I know that Osborne Russell fought the Blackfeet Indians in several areas,…along the Madison River,…and I believe he camped near my spot at one point (based on geographical descriptions provided in the book edited by Aubrey Haines).

            • anna says:

              E* last time you linked that image I paid close attention. Quite the photo and tie in to Y, triangle, peace. Hoping if I need to descend into the bowels of the earth (cave) or climb a tree F left me a ladder in the weeds. I’m not sure you would be inSide (grammatically) the wood in the tree platform. What does your grammar meter read? and do you think uu means up or under? Me thinks under. That’s where I’m at in my solution of my castle keep solution. My seige ladders take me down. But then I think f would like to be in a tree fort gazing at the Madison looking at the animals he mentions in the NM video.

          • E* says:

            anna – You wrote:

            “Perhaps others have passed away in this area, thus it should be carefully respected.”

            That made me wonder if an old Indian burial ground might be involved,…in Forrest’s choice of his hidey spot (in my case,…likely belonging to the Blackfeet).

            Here’s another “high regard” reference,…showing those platform Indian burials:

            http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x263np5_indian-burial-ground-from-jeremiah-johnson-1972_shortfilms

        • Project Why says:

          No place for the meek. No need to be humble.

    • Liviu says:

      Helen,

      High regard can be twisted from “looking up yo something” to just “looking from an elevated position”

      A panoramic spot if you will.
      At one point we (me and my brother) considered an old Indian scout vantage point as a possible location.
      The blaze of course would have been the fire pit for smoke signals 🙂

  8. Helen says:

    E*, I had thought along similar lines to your first couple of sentences. I didn’t really want to get into specifics, but as you mention “quickly down”, and as this topic is about the interpretation of words…

    I would argue that given the the nature of the trail to the treasure, based on all the extraneous information that Forrest has given, there is no genuine reason to literally look down quickly. You could say “oh, Forrest was just meaning to look down as soon as you get to that spot” but that doesn’t sound like a clue crafted by an architect over fifteen years.

    So, it seems likely that there is something else hidden in this phrase, and it’s not a simple instruction to look down…

    • anna says:

      Helen, I agree with you. If you solve the poem 3 or 4 times to arrive at a conclusion as some have suggested, “looking quickly down” could mean look across an open field to a stand of trees; straight down; to the lea side, or south west; look to the living fast. I enjoyed looking up other meanings for quick and ly/lea. I’m using 3 seperate meanings, but simply quickly down at the final place.

    • Project Why says:

      Could mean several things:

      1. The chest IS buried and it’s in an area where there is people traffic > reason for “quickly” and “tarry scant with marvel gaze”.
      2. It’s not buried, but below the blaze and IS still in an area of traffic.
      3. When the blaze is found by being “wise” ~ EYES, …..at that moment, it is critical to “look quickly down” or it could be missed by further movement.

      * Of course all referring to an actual physical place, not metaphorically speaking. But isn’t that what we are rally searching for? It MUST lead to a physical place.

      • Target says:

        Look quickly down applies to the first blaze not the last

        • E* says:

          Target – Yes,…your “first blaze” comment works for my solve also. But in that solve,…I need to “look quickly down” from the “wise” blaze,…that is in “high regard”,…onto the lovely blaze below it.

  9. astree says:

    I think you had a great take on it, E*, but I believe DOWN is the correct meaning

    Forrest is on the word “ad mire” ( I think this division, with the twist he put on it, that led to his comment)

    ad – mire

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mire?s=t

    astree

    • astree says:

      Sorry, E*. You pointed this out previously.

    • E* says:

      Astree – Right,…we are in agreement,…which is why I posted an image of a forest fen:

      http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fen?s=t

    • Helen says:

      Astree, unless Forrest is pretending to be the person who asked the question, the word “admire” is not his, so I’m not sure how he could have conjured it up as you suggest? If you’re doing what Forrest is doing, it’s difficult to take someone’s exact words and use them for your own purposes, it’s easier if you can spread your net a little wider.

      Example: If he didn’t just limit himself to the word “admire”, but was prepared to sift through the different meanings of the word, Forrest was more free to think laterally, and had more chance of finding something that he could twist for his own purposes, like “high regard”. If he couldn’t find something that suited his purpose, he might have just disregarded the question, as he has done many others.

      I’ve used a similar technique myself. It’s almost like looking through a disorganized cutlery drawer for that perfect piece of silverware.

  10. Seeker says:

    Jenny,
    Another great discussion. Multiple Meanings and the correct interpretations of all of them is the most challenging part of this poem. It may take another step or layer in meanings of words to understand how the Author is relaying, not only the information of the location of the chest but the meaning or significance of the poem itself.
    For example… the word “alone” as solo and only, can be taken one step more, as in the ‘First.’
    and yet other words be nothing more than exactly what they mean…waters, all liquid
    water.
    The term And take it in the canyon down…with a twist…may mean nothing more than
    Line of sight. or an actual Canyon. That’s the fun part. To find which way FF meant.

    The trick to fit all those ‘understandings’ of the words as the author intended them to be used in his mind. The Q&A you shown above is a perfect example of how to read the poem…”twist it a little maybe we can make it work.”

    Finding the proper content to All those meanings is how I believe the poem works and not so much the linear depiction the poem seems to be leading the readers.

    Which ever method a reader takes to interpret the poem, the Author gave us many avenues to consider. Now if I can only connect the correct far to the right nigh without drawing the scant conclusion…I may have a bold chance to go in peace.

    • Project Why says:

      Dang Seeker, finally a little substance. All the metaphors and abstract nonsense of the past was starting to make me yawn………. And all it took was for someone else to bring it up. Yeah, you just might have a bold chance to go in peace, …..but first you gotta leave your house. 🙂 But weren’t those his intentions in the first place? Now don’t get me wrong, I still think the poem is “straightforward”, …..perhaps if we just “twist” it a little bit? Or, as Forrest Fenn would say, Crean. Imagination with logic is key. Sweat and frustration is essential. Only then will the doors will open………. It has been almost 5 years now. Some have experienced the thrill of the chase, while others sit on the sidelines waiting for miracles. What a shame it would be if you missed out any further and also missed the whole point. Always learning, but yet, never knowing. Good thoughts though!! 🙂

      • Seeker says:

        Pw, Nora, Suzie…

        I’m truly not interested in if you care for my post holding any substance in your mind or not.
        You and I will not see eye to eye on, Well anything really. But your attempt to hide insults with smiley faces and what you maybe believe as clever hidden wording in your post are childish, to say it politely.

        Not everyone in this challenge to solve this poem has the ability to use their work for searches or only searching their own backyard. I dare say that a good percentage of folks here are retired and / or fixed incomes. But yet you enjoy the little digs as you say “… while others sit on the sidelines waiting for a miracle” or “finally a little substance. All the metaphors and abstract nonsense of the past was starting to make me Yawn”

        I’m not here to entertain you… or your little self ego online experiments. The sand box is open, So go play… while the adults have a conversation.

        • Project Why says:

          Seeker, Woody Allen, The Abstract Thinker, or whoever you are…..

          Throw some bait out there and out comes the big mouthed bass as predicted. 🙂 “Own backyard”? — Heck, I’ve been to all the other search states as well, I just believe it’s in NM, which just happens to be my own backyard, …..good thing, because I probably wouldn’t search for it these days if it weren’t. Where have you been in these 5 years? The dig wasn’t towards anyone else, just you. Maybe I should have said “you” instead of “others”. I just figured you get it, instead of trying to direct it elsewhere. But that’s what you do, isn’t it? …..try to bring everyone else into it to make yourself feel better. You are a disrespectful little man Woody and I will not tolerate it. And you’ve been that way from the beginning. You are just fortunate enough I can’t say it to your face. 🙂 Now go back to hoD where you belong.

          I’m on a fixed income myself. Gotta be creative. Don’t understand? Well, that’s on you. Now, I can’t speak for everyone though, nor do I try to, you do that for me it seems. Yes, some people can’t go anywhere and that’s too bad, I wish they could, but I do hope they find their enjoyment in it, …..I believe they can regardless and many do. Good for them!! 🙂

          You’re right though about one thing, “You and I will not see eye to eye on, Well anything really.” Because that would require you finding the chest or at least coming real close. Your thinking is so far off I can’t help but tell you about it, because I fear you see the rest of the world the same way and that could be tragic. I would hate to see you make those mistakes. 🙂 So, no, If that means seeing things the way you do, then I’m out. I will not have a conversation with imaginary adults either. I don’t mind being alone in that sandbox………..

      • E* says:

        Project Why – Thank you for supporting my theory,…when you mentioned Forrest’s “twisted” reference to the word “Crean”,…about the final blaze being associated with the HEART!:

        Crean is an Irish surname anglicised from Ó Croidheáin meaning “descendent of Croidheán”, the name Croidheán is derived from the word “croí/croidhe” meaning “heart”.

        And from Jenny’s blog:

        http://mysteriouswritings.com/questions-with-forrest/

        In your dictionary, what’s an aberration? ~Serge Teteblanche

        “I don’t have a dictionary but my personal definition is “Something different.” I like that word.

        When I was a kid there was a commonly used word. Crean, and it described the condition a car could get into when it ran into a ditch and the frame twisted a little, preventing the doors from opening. Modern autos are more sturdy so I guess that word was retired. I can’t find it anywhere now.f”

        And then to address Seeker’s comment,…from that same page here on Jenny’s blog (“First” = “lead dog”?):

        “For example… the word “alone” as solo and only, can be taken one step more, as in the ‘First.’”

        “Generally speaking, there are places where one should stay on established trails; Yellowstone is one. However, it reminds me of the worn-out axiom, “If you ain’t the lead dog, the scenery never changes.” When I am in the mountains or in the desert, the last place I want to be is on a trail. Ain’t no adventure in that for me. There isn’t a human trail in very close proximaty to where I hid the treasure.f”

        • E* says:

          Project Why – And then there is the part where Forrest writes:

          “…ran into a ditch and the frame twisted a little, preventing the doors from opening.”

          That could very well be a reference to how the Bronze Chest is secreted,…so that the lid does not open,…allowing the treasure contents to spill out. I do not think Forrest wastes his words on The Chase.

        • Project Why says:

          No dictionary huh? Yeah, I forgot about that one. Good job!! 🙂

  11. lia says:

    confirmations of correctly applying or matching forrests logic may be as simple as an uncomplicated rhyme. ie: I found the mound, brave in the cave, gold is in a cold place, wise eyes, blaze maze

  12. 23kachinas says:

    The paradox of Epic vs. Basic people

    “You can’t do epic sh*t with basic people” could turn it around and also say “You can’t do basic sh*t with epic people”

    For example: I could have someone famous renting my house that would never want to hang out with me since I’m basic but they can never pay their rent on time which would make them paying rent on time epic for a typically basic thing.

    The TTOTC poem’s words true meanings could be found on Urban Dictionary for all we know.

    Fun is where you find it.

    • E* says:

      23kachinas – I once sent a funny text to Forrest,…that said the following,…because I was experimenting with the A form of the Categorical Proposition:

      All Grizzes are bears. But not all bears are Grizzes.

      (And you can bet I know the difference by now!)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_proposition

      A form

      An A-proposition distributes the subject to the predicate, but not the reverse. Consider the following categorical proposition: “All dogs are mammals”. All dogs are indeed mammals but it would be false to say all mammals are dogs. Since all dogs are included in the class of mammals, “dogs” is said to be distributed to “mammals”. Since all mammals are not necessarily dogs, “mammals” is undistributed to “dogs”.

    • anna says:

      Outstanding people are meant to stand out. Not all people standing out are outstanding. That was fun. I learn so much here. Wish that I had been mentored by the likes of Forrest or his mentor Eric Sloane.

    • anna says:

      23 Kachinas, you have beautiful avatars. Both color and design are so unusual, but I’m unable to figure out what the shape represents. Hints?

  13. astree says:

    Hmmm, given anna’s comment on the Welcom page, and other comments in this article, this might be a good time to do a little discussion on anagrams and confirmation hypothesis (as carry-over from this site’s “Capitalization Hypothesis”).

    There is a cipher technqiue, that can be applied to certain naturally-defined parts of the poem. In applying that technique, the first results generated are:

    ASCHER

    I would call this initial look a fairly weak self-confirmation, because the first two letters are “AS” which coincide with the start of the poem –improbable, but not impossible.

    However, to boost it a bit, the letters anagram to

    CHASER SEARCH ARCHES

    Now, because Forrest called the poem his rainbow ( something which has arches ), I think this increases the confirmation level a bit. Not enough to call it a strong confirmation, but should be enough to pique interest for those who are looking, to look further.

    astree

    • astree says:

      .
      *(should read) ” as a carryover from this site’s “Capitalization Rules” (Questions with Forrest)”
      .

    • E* says:

      Astree – You wrote:

      CHASER SEARCH ARCHES

      That looks like a pretty strong confirmation for one of the blazes in my solve. Thank you! 🙂

      But have you considered this permutation of your “ASCHER” anagram?:

      AS CHER

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsFaVxcUMhQ

      Didn’t Forrest mention that Cher was one of the guests that came to the Fenn Galleries? And wasn’t there a story and illustration in TTOTC,…about him hiding under a Gypsy Wagon,…and watching th Gypsies dance around the fire? 🙂

    • anna says:

      Astree, I’m truly grateful you willingly share brilliant methods of puzzle solving and insightful info. on several blogs, and am in agreement with you about using anagrams to confirm location. The person who ultimately solves Forrest’s poem should be humbly grateful to those who opened our minds to new ways of processing the poem. Let me the first to thank you Astree, E*, Jenny, and so many others on TTOTC and Dal’s blogs too for kindness and comraderie!! Blessings to all.

      • astree says:

        anna,

        It takes a special type of person to write that, thank-you.

        I believe that in order to see many situations more completely, we need to break out of established thinking patterns. In the U.S., that includes the methods we were taught in school, and social organizations. Many times we are unaware that we are in constrained by our thinking patterns but a good puzzle should motivate us to question at least some of the ways we look at information, and push us to think outside the box …… I believe Forrest’s puzzle definitely qualifies.

        E* – related a bit to this, are you aware of the Hegelian dialectic, which basically states that humans understand something if it is framed in polar opposites, like good / evil … or maybe meek / bold 🙂

        Blessings to you too, anna.

        Look c Gud,
        astree

        • E* says:

          Astree – No,…I had not read about that,…but it made me think of how Jenny said she would most like to meet Plato,…when Forrest asked all of us to respond:

          Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from Ancient Greek διαλεκτική, is a method of argument for resolving disagreement that has been central to European and Indian philosophy since antiquity. The word dialectic originated in ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic dialogues. The dialectical method is discourse between two or more people holding different points of view about a subject, who wish to establish the truth of the matter guided by reasoned arguments.

          But I found a similar concept,…when studying Cheyenne Warrior Societies:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_military_societies

          Contrary Warriors Society (Hohnóhkao’o),[3] also known as the Inverted Bow-string Society. Its members, the Contrary Warriors, have proved their bravery by riding backward into battle.[9]

          Contrary Society (sing. Hohnohka, pl. Hohnóhkao’o), also known as Clown Society.[8] This society draws upon the same spiritual powers as the Contrary Warriors Society. It is primarily composed of Cheyenne elders and may be a mature variation of the Contrary Warriors Society. They were charged with teaching the Cheyenne ceremonial ways of the cultural “dos” and “don’ts” through humour, sarcasm and satire, in a fashion contrary to the traditional Cheyenne culture.

          Just after reading Jenny’s comment about posting here on her blog,…I saw yours:

          “Many times we are unaware that we are in constrained by our thinking patterns but a good puzzle should motivate us to question at least some of the ways we look at information, and push us to think outside the box…”

          I agree with you, astree. 🙂

          EDIT/ADDITION by Moderator:
          E*, I think Jenny would agree too. If this is in response to her comment, then you should have understood her only goal is to keep things better organized. I am sure you will respect her wishes for her site, and try and do so. It will be appreciated.

          • JC1117 says:

            Hello, Astree and E*. Excellent discussion…and on topic, too! I must admit that oftentimes I enjoy being “contrary”and a clown, myself. I think the reason fits nicely into Astree’s observation of “the Hegelian dialectic, which basically states that humans understand something if it is framed in polar opposites, like good / evil … or maybe meek / bold :)” As another example I would like to mention the polar opposites joy and sorrow which is often expressed through laughing and crying. I believe that the role of the Contrary/Clown Warriors was (still is?) to teach people…especially the younger generation not valuable…but priceless…life lessons while maximizing laughter in order to minimize crying. If I ever have the choice I know which One I’ll choose. There are many lessons to learn. What brings True joy (contentment) and what does not?

            http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/joy

            http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/sorrow

  14. Jenny Kile says:

    Hi all……..

    I’ve been away scouting the area of the Beale Treasure (will have posts on that later)…..and so I haven’t been in touch with my site for the last few days……

    I feel the need to try something …….

    I appreciate all comments, and feel as long as they are respectful to each other, there should be a place for them.

    Since, I would like comments under each post to pertain more to the post, I’ll be creating a page for less specific comments to be made on.

    Days, weeks, years from now, when people are looking for specific things, it will be easier if comments concerning the initial post didn’t get lost within less specific discussions on it.

    This is my goal for the site and comments.

    For this reason then, I am going to create a page called ‘MW Chats’……It will be one page for now…however I may expand it to include various subtopics if needed….

    This ‘Chat Room’ can be used for making comments and chatting about treasure (and other things on Mysterious Writings), which may not be specific enough to include as a comment under a Post.

    When in doubt, please post in the Chat Room. When you think others may question your comment, post in the chat room then too. This will be extremely helpful for future users.

    Obviously, there may be some ‘grey area’ of what follows in a discussion or not…….but I will be grateful if everyone attempts to keep more in line with the initial post.

    I will apologize beforehand if I delete any posts that I feel should have gone in the ‘chat room’. It is not my intention to limit discussion, but to try and categorize it better. If I delete, you can repost in the chat room if you want.

    All help on this will be so appreciated….and I thank you so much for cooperating on doing this now………

    Best of luck with whatever you search!

    Jenny

  15. Thrillchaser says:

    I find this strange. Out of all the words Forest could use for HALT AND WALK, why did he leave them unrhymed. Couldn’t he find another word or way to write the line for the lines to rhyme?

    • 42 says:

      Thrill chaser. Regarding the use of halt and walk, study the words, especially halt. It ends at t. T is a form of X and meaningful in Jesuit treasure symbols as well as its implications in life. Forrest meant for us to notice it when searching the treasure yard, stop exactly there, perhaps proceed 20 feet. IMO

  16. Jar says:

    Scant

    Timber: A slightly thinner measurement of a standard wood size.
    How does full width differ from scant width?

    Not quite up to full measure: i.e. Barely sufficient or adequate.

    I believe this is a mute point now but could have been one of the intended meanings of “in the wood”

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